Mach Peformance My story... the TNT Version part 1 and 2

[RevolutionRacin]

have quite a lengthy story about the experience I have had with mach peformance but I am leary to post the entire thing here because they have threatened to sue me for slander if I deface their company.

I will simply sum it up in this manner. I was a personal friend of theirs at one point as well as dave blown4.3 that was and still is in process building a truck with them. I started my ordeal with then in august of 2002 I went up to their shop and delivered an engine to them that I wanted built. Stage 3 engine for a procharger setup I was going to purchase though them.
I paid them 3500 up front to begin getting parts they informed me that I had to pay 90% up front before builing can begin so I paid to have a short block built upfront using my ported heads. 2 months later I called to find out progress because I had not heard from them. They then started telling me more about their turbo kit. I started liking the idea. I asked them what more it was going to cost to do a turbo they infrormed me and I decided at that point I was going to get a blazer x myself and I was going to do a balls out turbo kit and work with mach and make the fastest truck to date. At that time.
The winter went by and they were extremely difficult to contact. I got a few peices of information here or there but at that time I still had not heard progress on my short block. They told me they flowbenched my heads. And they were going to select a camshaft for the turbo if I was going to go with it. I said well let's get the short block done first so I can find out how much I am going to owe. Winter past spring came 2003 I went up to see them at a car show in the town right next to theirs. I thought they were going to have a big setup by what they told me on the phone I drove up and it was just Bill and Coleen hanging out. That was fine and all I saw their blazer in running conditon and I was sold on the idea. I had come up to the detroit area from chicago that day with a check for 2k more to keep them moving foreward on my project. In that time they were still going to use my heads and intake with the stage 3 short block and turbo kit. I then saw them a few months later at ITB in Indi. Spent the weekend with them and then was invited to sema with them. Sema happned spent 2 weeks with Mach and family. Drove out to vegas in my 95 noma that astro now owns.. and he drove their blazer. After sema I gave them another payment. My bill at that time was up to 13k with the turbo kit. I had 8k into them at this time and nothing had been done yet. I agreed that yes I understood that 90% had to be upfront before we could actually start building anything but I also said I have the engine paid for lets get that done then move on to the turbo.

[RevolutionRacin]

This thread continues to another to read the whole story

[RevolutionRacin]

From that point on it seemed like clear sailing. We were going to have my truck done for Detroit autorama. Dave has had his truck there all that time. And at that point they decided to paint his frame on his truck for the show they took the cab and bed off. At this point my engine was still not done. I was now driving up on weekends to try and help out at the shop because at that point I had become a friend to them. I was driving 5 hours one way on friday nights and driving home 5 hours on sunday trying to help them get on track because they were so swamped with work. I am not a " engine machinist" and I will not make claim to be I helped out doing Mechanic work at their shop and helped Dave with assembling his truck. As well as getting him parts though my dealer connections here in illinois. Some of which I still have not been rembursed for. I will not make a deal of that. However.. My truck and project was again back burnered and Bill assured me by S series NATS 2004 we would be going down there in force. I said ok fine. So come april tax time. I cut him another fat check.
My amount paid in on the project was now 13k even. I had a bill of 13629.00 Now at this time I said ok lets kick it in the ass get this engine done. Get the turbo done. Ok fine. Well then there was the issue with another s10 customer that wanted a refund because mach never shipped his kit. I then got sidestepped again. Then thats when the bigger excuses started. I called in June and notified them I quit my job and was going on to another and he felt that might effect the project. I belive at that point he had been thinking of other ways to drive up the cost. I continued to pressure them to get my stuff done.
I was no longer visiting his shop any more at this point because after I had been aggrivated enough I got very stern with him on the phone and when I asked that my project be completed and I was perstant about it now I think the friend part of that relationship desolved. I am partially responsible for letting him get the better of me in this situation but I will tell you straight out they seem like really nice people and they can be. But mixing buisness and friendship is a definte no no. Now when I threatened to tell everyone on s10 forum before of bill's buisness ethics he threatened back at me to go ahead and post my payment schedule and how much the checks were and so on and so forth. I have no problem pinpointing payments and amounts if need be. He then went on to say that some of the personal things he knew about me he could use against me as well. That is simply petty crap in my opinion because the minor details he knows of my personal life I could explioit his to the fullest knowing what I know including what he has done to fellow s10 forum members as well as customers I knew in dealing with him. He is not at all a competely honest buisnessman. Finally after continued phone calls and several angry ones I finally got my engine in july of this past year. Now the problem with the engine was it was supposed to be a 2002 block. He told me that he did no longer have a 2002 block and since I supplied him with a 99 block this is what I was getting back. I was unable to authenticate that because he had machined off the serial numbers off the facing plate on the block. However the knock sensor was for a 99 and down style block and that proved it was defintely not an 02 block. The block was missing an intake. I paid for a completely assembled engine. The intake was not done. He told me that he mistakenly gave his porter a diffrent intake and he showed me and my father in person.. a 2002 intake he said he was porting for me.
He was going to drop ship that to me within 2 days of me being there. I said ok fine. Now I collected on half of my tab by picking up the engine I was still waiting on a turbo kit and a muffler to be returned that I had left at his shop before when we intended to do the total project there. I left a brand new in box race magnum. 2 more months past. Excuses were unbeliveable and so was frustration. I never recived my intake or my muffer that he promised to ship. I hired a lawyer. He then told me he would have my turbo kit within 2 weeks. Well.. then after someone on s10 forum posted about them and getting a turbo kit. I private messaged the member and advised him against it because of my current situation. That member of s10 forum went ahead and called Bill Mach and told him of my warning. I then got a call from bill the week after refusing to build my turbo kit and that I could have my lawyer contact him. Before I could even call the lawyer he called me back offering me a refund. Now so the facts are straight. I paid every payment in check. Not credit card. Not cash. Personal check and each was cleared and done by the same bank. After a heated conversation and him agreeing to refund my turbo kit which was a little over 6k.
He said my balance on my invoice was 600 dollars I said well then how about you take out the 600 out of the 6500 for the turbo kit and refund me including the taxes adjusted. He said ok fine. I asked about my intake and he said he would send that with the check and muffler. He also then said he needed 30 days. I said well I thin that is a little rediculus. But he said his vendors had to restock the items he claimed he ordered for my kit. Now after 2 years do you really think if he ordered these parts and had them on the shelf he would get a refund? No. Because he never ordered the parts and I firmly belive he never built my turbo kit to begin with. I think he was simply looking for an excuse not to build my kit from day one when I began pressuring him to get it done after waiting 2 years... 52 days later from the day he agreed upon.. 30 days.. 52 days later I had to drive to detroit again and pick up my muffler and my check and my intake. He claimed he did not want to ship them he was worried about the holidays causing shipping issues. I drove up on a saturday and nothing was said he gave me the check. The muffler was a brand new one.. not the one I left there.
The box was still sealed. The one I left with them I had allready mocked up on my truck but never fired though it. The intake that I picked up was a 1998 and down intake with the egr port. NOT the 2002 intake my father and I saw him porting. Also the porting job was very poor. It looks like he barely touched it with the die grinder. Very little metal was removed. Infact I measured the ports with and found less than 10 thousands diffrence at the port where it meets the cylnder head to an off the shelf un ported intake. I know I got ****ed over on that but instead of argueing I took the check and the parts and left.
The check cleared a week later.

I am posting this entire long story for the consumer to see.
I was a " personal" friend of the Mach's at one time.
Their poor buisness skills shined though with this ordeal.

over 2 years from when it started. It ended and I am now fabricating my own turbo setup bigger and better than anything he could have come up with.
And I am not using his intake. And I am also tearing down my engine from him to be sure that every part I paid for is in there down to the ARP studs. If they are not then I still have a lawyer to go back after them.

I hope some of this is useful to some other customers before they think about purchasing anything from Mach performance.

I also want to state that this is the Vendor feedback forum I have the right to say what I have in honesty because I am a paying and dis satisifed customer.

I anticipate when this gets back to Mr. Mach he will leave me an angry voicemail or reply to this post. I wish to have no further dealings with him or his company. If he wants to contact me and can't I would invite him to just go though my lawyer to get to me.

[Park Style]

:eek: wow.... im sorry to hear this man... and good luck with things

[radandy]

this thread will remain open, as it doesn't seem to be the only of it's kind...

[Park Style]

this thread will remain open, as it doesn't seem to be the only of it's kind...


thats why i left it be ;)

[xblazinlv]

Yup very sad how people who own a business can "befriend customers" just so they can jerk them around. I will post up my LONG experience that I have never shared as well......hopefully today or tomorrow.

[RevolutionRacin]

Thanks for keeping This alive. I know there are more Mach stories out there I Just wish they would surface so people can actually see what they are dealing with here.

[sy-clone]

Yup very sad how people who own a business can "befriend customers" just so they can jerk them around. I will post up my LONG experience that I have never shared as well......hopefully today or tomorrow.
Mike don't tell me you had a fallout with Bill and Colleen too? I thought you guys
were really tight friends. Can't wait to here what you have to say. PEACE>Tony
:halfsad:

[cartman007]

:( sad sad sad :(

[Nate]

seems to me that with as much money and time involved the authorities shoudl be getting involved, however I do know there are two sides to the story and I guess I should wait for their side before I make comments like that but really how many excuses can you make?

[Coste35]

what a dick, if he goes to nats somthing should be said

[Y2KJDE]

Wow, $13k for a motor! :eek:

Like Nate said I realize there are 2 sides to each story but the time it took to build the engine is not acceptable.

[xblazinlv]

Mike don't tell me you had a fallout with Bill and Colleen too? I thought you guys
were really tight friends. Can't wait to here what you have to say. PEACE>Tony
:halfsad:




It wasn't really a falling out...... but there are a lot of things I put up with because of our "friendship" that I never told you guys about. Honestly they are great people, I considered them both my close friend, but as a business they are just sad. You can't be friends with your customers...... it never works out for one of the parties involved. It will take me a page to type out my whole story and the things I've never told, and I plan to do so in the near future. The whole thing is just sad...... that's all I can say. It's a shame to see them go out like this, but they brought it on themselves.

[xtreme43s10]

It wasn't really a falling out...... but there are a lot of things I put up with because of our "friendship" that I never told you guys about. Honestly they are great people, I considered them both my close friend, but as a business they are just sad. You can't be friends with your customers...... it never works out for one of the parties involved. It will take me a page to type out my whole story and the things I've never told, and I plan to do so in the near future. The whole thing is just sad...... that's all I can say. It's a shame to see them go out like this, but they brought it on themselves.


it would be interesting to know where is he doing work now to let whoever his customers know about this.

[RevolutionRacin]

Update on my stage 3 engine. I began tear down. I paid alot of money and with what was involved honestly I don't trust them anymore. I began pulling apart the valvetrain and found that all the passenger head rocker studs were barely hand tight and 2 on the drivers side as well. I don't know how you could even say the valves were lashed. I could say ok if he said he did not lash the valves but back when I picked up the engine he said it was ready to run. Although the intake was missing at the time. I took off one head so far drivers side. He had also told me the block was surfaced and true.. I work for a machine shop. Heidt's hotrods. I am the head fabricator and prototype designer.. I run a mill and a lathe on a regular basis. I can truely say that the block or the heads were not surfaced at all. The only time they took a mill to that engine block was to machine off the block numbers above the water pump cast. If I find anything else unusual I will be updating. I also plan to run th cam numbers and find out what he put in versus what I paid for. All I can say is that for 472 dollars the " fast bleed special mach lifters" look a whole lot like your typical Comp cams fast bleed roller lifters.. its going to be intresting. Did I mention the 470 dollar ATI harmonic dampener?


Somedays.. luck just runs out.
Other days people just like to stick it to you.

[HotRodV6]

Man im sorry to hear about all your problems, they seemed real nice the few times i talked to them on the phone, but with as many people coming out now with there stories, they werent doing the right thing it seems.


Also, im curious as to what ever happen with dave's truck (Blown 4.3) Did it get done and to the Autorama? And what does he have to say about Bill Mach?

[RevolutionRacin]

His truck is still in progress as far as I know I was asked not to involve him or comment about him so I will respectfully do so. That's really all I can say on that matter. I will say it did not ever see autorama.

[HotRodV6]

Thats cool, i understand only need to comment on your story and the facts of your situation.

Its a real shame they have to go don like this, alot of good could have come out of that shop, he seemed very bright and eager to bring alot of performance to the S-Series crowd, but like other have said, you cant mix business with pleasure, and when your at work you have to draw the line at freindship.

Good luck with your project, Heidts has some very nice front ends, i was going to use one of there set ups with my 56 chevy truck project, but could never get the money to buy, but a nice setup none the less. Maybe you could get them to make a coilover rack and pinion swap for an S-10???

[Coste35]

what happened to Xblazinlv's story?

[SNK SKNR]

what happened to Xblazinlv's story?

:stupid:

[Park Style]

i dunno....

[SNK SKNR]

I have kinda mixed feelings with Mach. When I did get thru, he knew his shiz, was eager to help and I understand how busy he was. I ordered a bunch of parts (rockers, timing chain, timing cover, gaskets) and they shipped them to the wrong address (partially my fault cause I had moved from the last time I ordered (1 year earlier) but they should have verified the address.) So the package got turned around and I was just gonna pick it up at Mach when it got back there from UPS(about 1.5 hours each way). Come to find out that they had shipped someone else my order and sent me that persons order. I was told they had eveything from my order in stock except the timing chain, but they had one that they pulled from a motor with 6 hours run time on a dyno that they would give me for $20, so I said fine. Another thing they informed me was that the order I placed about 1 year before for the conversion studs, they say they didnt think they charged me for it. :confused: Luckily my bank keeps online statements, and there it was, taken from my account about 1 year before, so I printed it out. So I went and picked up my parts, even got a tour of the place and talked to Bill for like an hour. I paid my bill, showed them that they charged me for the conversion studs afterall, and left. About a day later when I went to do the swap, I realized that they had given me non-self aligning rocker arms (thank God I noticed before I tore into the motor, as it is a daily driver and the swap was happening over the weekend), so I called Bill, shipped them back and got the new rockers no problem. Went to test fit them on my head and the damn rocker poly locks were the wrong size (7/16") another call to Bill and I got my new locks (I still had to pay to return them both). Anytime I had a problem, Bill was really good about fixing it (when I got thru) but I still had alot of quirks with my order, though this can happen to anyone.

Edited based on Boosted Thrills enlightening me about the timing chain :)

[s1096]

Wow!

Well I got all my stuff (Stage 3 heads + Roller Rocker kit) in great condition and working great. But it did take a looooooooooooooooooooong time!

[gotswrv]

Man, this is all a bit depressing. For some time I thought I was the only one with a bad experience. Seems like this was not the case... I can't really understand. I would think that once you had a rep like Mach, did it would be easy to make a very good thing from it. There are just to many S-10 guys with no where else to shop.

[Rhino]

I'm not saying anyone's lying or anything, but IMO it'd be kinda nice to get bill/colleen in here to at least defend themselves..

[Sonoma 96]

I'm not saying anyone's lying or anything, but IMO it'd be kinda nice to get bill/colleen in here to at least defend themselves..

Since this post was put up here and S10 Forums, Bill and or Collen have been here and read what was written. Seen them here listed on this forum a few times and also at S10 Forums. No answer is meaning there is nothing to add, GUILTY as charged!

[Boosted Thrills]

colleen it was nice talk'n to ya today

oh yea you too, bill

[D-LoW]

Wow!

Well I got all my stuff (Stage 3 heads + Roller Rocker kit) in great condition and working great. But it did take a looooooooooooooooooooong time!

Was the wait worth it? I'd kinda like to know how the Stage III heads and rocker kit perform.

[Boosted Thrills]

I went to put on the timing chain I got from them, I had this thing in the box...(theirs on left, stock replacement from autozone on right)


I dont know if im missing something about the one I got from Mach, but it was about HALF the thickness of the stock chain...it wasnt even as thick as a bicycle chain.


the chain from autozone is a POS, that style streches fast. i cant really tell but the cam gear even looks to be made of aluminum :eek:

the one from mach is a roller chain, much stronger, i can also tell it has steel gears. thats a single roller design, the roller chains you see in jegs and summit are the double roller design. the LT4 uses a single roller design

Wow!

Well I got all my stuff (Stage 3 heads + Roller Rocker kit) in great condition and working great. But it did take a looooooooooooooooooooong time!

whats a looooooooooooooooooooong time? is the timeframe your talking about compairable to the wait for a set of heads from any other head porter that has experience with the 4.3L vortec head?

i waited almost 4 weeks for just a valve job on my LT1 heads from a machine shop here in town, yea i coulda had a local parts house do them with a couple day turnaround but i wanted them done right, by the person i trusted.


Since this post was put up here and S10 Forums, Bill and or Collen have been here and read what was written. Seen them here listed on this forum a few times and also at S10 Forums. No answer is meaning there is nothing to add, GUILTY as charged!

why would they? no matter what info they present yourself and a couple others will not beleave them and continue to bash them. its just gonna turn into a he said she said internet pissing match

myself and im sure a few others look forward to the time when they post so these stories are straightened out ;)

[gotswrv]

myself and im sure a few others look forward to the time when they post so these stories are straightened out ;)


Yah, wouldn't it be nice if the "stories" could be "straightened out". I guess you would have the board believe that anyone not thrilled with Mach is indeed telling a story. Look around... Notice your crowd is being had, just like those who were the "bad guys", the one's telling "stories"... Looks like even the faithful are not reserved. Why are you so comfortable? Looks like you may be next to me...

[xtreme43s10]

why would they? no matter what info they present yourself and a couple others will not beleave them and continue to bash them. its just gonna turn into a he said she said internet pissing match

myself and im sure a few others look forward to the time when they post so these stories are straightened out ;)


I highly doubt they will post anything anymore they just do not care, they have been caught in to many lies, last time i talked to bill early fall/late summer i guess they were going to stop all 4.3 stuff soon. which is good since they did not produce a quailty product anyways. boosted you know alot about my dealings with them, well i am not the only one, how many times did others have problem's with him. when i ordered everything for my motor i was pretty much told he had everything in stock, becuase he knew if he did not say that i would of went elsewhere and ended up he didn t have everything in stock, he did not have pistons which i waited a few months for as long as his " custom" cam which ended up being an off the shelf cam. it took him several months to get everything which he said was "in stock". his turbo kit he said would only take 4-6 weeks to build i first ordered it in november, and we switched to a larger turbo the begining of january since he was no where near done anyways. and it still took till may to get everything and thats after countless phone calls etc. and it was for a kit that still did not fit correctly. i feel if these stories could be straitened out then they would be. but by him not saying anything and just sitting in the dark reading what is being said about him then he is guilty and seems to me what is being said about him is the truth.

[Nate]

:werd: they definatly need to get on here and do some explaining. even if its just excuses, it woudl be better than nothing. excuses show they at least cared somewhat, and maybe they did screw up BIG time. maybe they coudln't handle the orders :dunno: but their complete lack of even a small response is saying to me, they don't care.

[Nate]

Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 3 (3 members and 0 guests)
Nate, Boosted Thrills, MachPerformance

[Boosted Thrills]

i guess they were going to stop all 4.3 stuff soon. ........ boosted you know alot about my dealings with them, well i am not the only one, how many times did others have problem's with him.

i wouldnt say he stopped, he did tell me what a customer just ran with a stock motor and turbo kit. i about **** my pants when i heard the trap speed

your right, i do know about alot of your problems with them and his kit. im sure his new header design and new turbo he is using is to take care of the header and exhaust expansion due to the heat of the turbo. the method of mounting the exhaust system needs to take into account the thermal expansion. it does suck that you ended up with an early disign. i know you also had huge fitment problems with the downpipe but you also have a t56 which im sure bill had a hard time making the downpipe due to the fact he didnt have your truck. he had to use his best guess.




i know this really isnt my business to know and you dont have to answer but im beginning to wonder if the guys complaining about the time it took for thier kits or whatever paid for all their parts upfront


im not trying to piss people off or add fuel to the fire

[xtreme43s10]

i wouldnt say he stopped, he did tell me what a customer just ran with a stock motor and turbo kit. i about **** my pants when i heard the trap speed
your right, i do know about alot of your problems with them and his kit. im sure his new header design and new turbo he is using is to take care of the header and exhaust expansion due to the heat of the turbo. the method of mounting the exhaust system needs to take into account the thermal expansion. it does suck that you ended up with an early disign. i know you also had huge fitment problems with the downpipe but you also have a t56 which im sure bill had a hard time making the downpipe due to the fact he didnt have your truck. he had to use his best guess.
i know this really isnt my business to know and you dont have to answer but im beginning to wonder if the guys complaining about the time it took for thier kits or whatever paid for all their parts upfront
im not trying to piss people off or add fuel to the fire

bill knew before i ordered my kit i had a T-56, also that is not what i had problems with it was the a/c, also he knew i had a/c and that was not coming off. also was the trap speed on this truck did he use a G-tech to get that ? i heard great things about the dyno he use's as well :ugh: something about an autotap dyno. all the $$ for my kit i did have up front at time of order and bill and i agreed i would pay half up front and the rest would be a COD when he shipped everything which he then cried about saying that he did not want to cod it becuase it was to much of a hassle for him so i paid the rest on a credit card. i can not speak for others about how they worked out payment. for those who still want to deal with bill they can do so at their own risk, i personaly will never buy another part threw him or any company he works for. i highly doubt his new header or turbo solve much of anything since it was the quality or work and the materials he use's which is why i had problems. if his new kit uses the same airworks turbo tony got it is only rated for 375 flywheel h.p. and was on sale from innovative turbo for $499. don't believe me call them and ask. but for anything other then a stock motor that turbo seems a little to small for a 4.3L engine. IF WE ARE ALL JUST LYING WHY DOESN'T BILL SAY ANYTHING ?

[sy-clone]

I've not fired up my truck yet and this business about the headers cracking has
me worried when and if it does happen. I'm a busy guy so my truck gets last place on my list of things to do(sh@##t) and I'm wondering if he will repair or
replace them if they do crack. I've done my part to maintain a cordial friendship
with both Bill and Colleen. My patience was taken to never before heights when
it came to getting my turbo kit. I've talked to them on several occasions recently and it's been cool. So Bill, if you're reading this thread please step up
and defend yourself. We all screw up and it takes guts to admit it and take it on the chin. Accepting mistakes and correcting them makes you a better person
and gains the respect of others as far as I'm concerned. PEACE>Tony :squint:

[gotswrv]

I payed 100% up front. I did ask for a few things that could have been considered custom and at extra cost. Things like custom colored coatings... He never talked about adding cost, everything was NO problem... When I started tryign to get my money back he sent a "partial kit" and stated the custom coatings just couldn't get done in the timeframe given to the coating place. I did NOT have a problem with this as I had not paided. And things like this are easy enough for me to get done. But, as I said, minus the above, all was 100% advanced.

For anything like this USE THE CREDIT CARD... I firmly believe I would still have nothing but a pile of generic parts, and be out my money if I haden't. Even the credit card couldn't reach Mach Performance. They said the "had access to one of his checking accounts" I guess they pulled the money out and sent him a letter letting him know that after 30 days they were giving the money to me. They also said that even to this he never responded...

[xblazinlv]

what happened to Xblazinlv's story?




Out of respect for people I was once friends with I won't say anything in detail...... I will however say that my transaction was less than smooth with them and there was no dyno ever performed on my truck. Let's just say they are good people, but as a business they need A LOT of work.

[xtreme43s10]

Out of respect for people I was once friends with I won't say anything in detail...... I will however say that my transaction was less than smooth with them and there was no dyno ever performed on my truck. Let's just say they are good people, but as a business they need A LOT of work.


hey mike glad to see you are still alive we need to catch up. :wavey:

[SNK SKNR]

the chain from autozone is a POS, that style streches fast. i cant really tell but the cam gear even looks to be made of aluminum :eek:

the one from mach is a roller chain, much stronger, i can also tell it has steel gears. thats a single roller design, the roller chains you see in jegs and summit are the double roller design. the LT4 uses a single roller design


post was edited to fix my ignorance :)

[xtreme43s10]

Out of respect for people I was once friends with I won't say anything in detail...... I will however say that my transaction was less than smooth with them and there was no dyno ever performed on my truck. Let's just say they are good people, but as a business they need A LOT of work.
http://www.s10forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78741&highlight=dyno

so is bill lying here ?

boosted thrills are you sure he isn't lying about the times with a stock truck and his turbo kit ?

that is just one of the many. would you want to do bussiness with a company that has to lie about there products ? on any other forum a bussiness like this would be laughted at and put out of bussiness. hoepfully if we are all wrong Mach performance will step in and say something but since we are right they won't.

[xtreme43s10]

for those who can not see this was posted by none other then Mach performance.


Some Turbo and Stage engine package dyno #'s


XBLAZINLV DYNO #'S
414 RWHP and 506 RWTQ @ 11.1 psi

I'll post the dyno sheets later.

That was Mike's engine with our Stage II short block and Stage III stock valve diameter heads. Also a new camshaft design that I have been working on for the turbo applications. Our turbo kit with a 60-1 Innovative turbo

We also did some more calibration work in the fuel department. So even with that much power we are at 88-90 psi of FP.

His Blazer will dust my Blazer, no problem, and we know mine goes 13.5 @ 104 with BullSh1t radial tires on a no boost launch. I know for sure with a full boost lanuch and slicks my Blazer will do 13.00 to maybe a high 12.9 pass at 105-106 mph.

Right now Mike is on his way back to Vegas driving. He said he's getting about 24 mpg.

[Boosted Thrills]

http://www.s10forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78741&highlight=dyno



boosted thrills are you sure he isn't lying about the times with a stock truck and his turbo kit ?



i guess he could be, how do i know everyone in this thread isnt lying? he said he was faxed a copy of the timeslip, 109mph and a 13.something ET. the run was made on street radials


chris no worries on the timing chain thing, it would be easy for someone to be confused

[xblazinlv]

hey mike glad to see you are still alive we need to catch up. :wavey:



Good to see ya too bro :smoke:


Back to the Mach issues:

So yes the dyno numbers were a lie.....I covered for them because I thought my truck was really put on a dyno, but in reality they used the air flow numbers off of auto tap to try and estimate a HP number. I was never faxed dyno slips or any of that. However I will say this, I didn't lie about the way the truck ran up there. It would have blown my syclone away from a roll easily.

[Boosted Thrills]

However I will say this, I didn't lie about the way the truck ran up there. It would have blown my syclone away from a roll easily.


:rock:

[Sonoma 96]

they used the air flow numbers off of auto tap to try and estimate a HP number.


Just a simple question then. Do you run a GMS MAF??? Or a gutted factory one??

[Rhino]

myself and im sure a few others look forward to the time when they post so these stories are straightened out ;)


listen man, I wasn't trying to be an ass by my statement, I met bill and colleen at nats 2 years go, hell they caravaned out to KC from st louis..

they seemed like pretty cool people... I along with a lot of other people wanna hear their end of it.... I'm not saying I am jumping on these people's bandwagons... but it is kind of overwhelming now. imo..

[xtreme43s10]

Good to see ya too bro :smoke:


Back to the Mach issues:

So yes the dyno numbers were a lie.....I covered for them because I thought my truck was really put on a dyno, but in reality they used the air flow numbers off of auto tap to try and estimate a HP number. I was never faxed dyno slips or any of that. However I will say this, I didn't lie about the way the truck ran up there. It would have blown my syclone away from a roll easily.

i agree with how your truck ran, even with 6-7 lbs of boost my truck pulls alot harder then it ever did with a vortech and 12+ lbs of boost, i can still easily spin my tires in 2nd from a roll if i like. i still did put down over 300 rwhp on a real dyno with about the same boost last year and my swiss cheese headers.

[Sonoma 96]

listen man, I wasn't trying to be an ass by my statement, I met bill and colleen at nats 2 years go, hell they caravaned out to KC from st louis..

they seemed like pretty cool people... I along with a lot of other people wanna hear their end of it.... I'm not saying I am jumping on these people's bandwagons... but it is kind of overwhelming now. imo..

Anybody can be a warm loving likeable person when away from business and work. Thats not so odd in the least. Just because a person is like this away from business and work doesnt mean he is a sweet heart when in this position of making money.

I dont think in any way shape nor form these peoples with problems that are posting are lieing in one little bit, in fact I think there holding back due to Bill and Collens stature outside the business and forums.

Back when Bill first hit SSF when it broke away from org, I myself without hate or anything else was interested in his kit and had some serious questions about logistics of the kit. The first question was about fuel delivery and Bill stated his side. This sounded way off the mark so I posted the same question with Bills fix to a fuel injection specialist.He said no way is a FMU going to work anywhere near close in what the motor actually needs and will have a tendency to run pig rich as shifts are made etc. 80 PSI pins the injectors 100% open and a orfice sized for 19lbs and hour at 80% and 60PSI will not in correlation to PSI and fuel addage stay the same. As pressure rises the fuel will at a point begin to slow its added rate down and at some point actually cease to add more. When I post this it gets slammed.

Then everyone wants 1.6:1 rockers in which myself and one or 2 others say go for it. Bill says they wont fit under the covers and "were" lieing and you need his machine work! Funny we didnt have that problem!

Then people ask about head work in which Bill states there is really nothing to gain on doing them, he himself has benched flowed heads that he done work on and only had gotten 10CFM gains at .500 lift.I had no problem with that, allready was told be some serious head builders this is the case. Larger valves, bowl work, porting and the likes dont significantly make any gains on these heads and also you could destroy them if you attempted to do them. hen a year later he offers this service at the cats behind so call him on it.

The GMS maf deal. The factory one at full voltage draw is considered 175 GPS, this according to GM specs. GMS units DO NOT read any more air, thats a voltage reading the ECM is using. WHat Bill and or GMS have done is figure since its 43% larger it reads 43% more which is just under 250GPS based on the orfice size. Well thats wholeheartly someones blunder it math skills. The area size does not even come close to these specs when vacuum or pressure it maintained. Besides the fact GMS used a resistor bridged in to try to compensate for the off skewed reading which reports less air volume based on voltage useage! The ECM would throw fits if the MAF reported something so far outside its perimeters it wasnt funny! Then you have to change the MAF to fuel pulse maps which leads to another little diddley!

Knowing my standing with Bill was where it was and I was on the boards for X number of years, 3 peoples PMed or emailed me with problems regarding the $500 ECM tuning they were doing. One of these people was close enough to a shop I know of that does custom tuning I sent him there to check it out. The peopes there at Kennedys Dynotune had found that the ECM in question just got torque management reduced. He was running a Vortec S/C and a GMS and that was to be remapped with the Mach S/C tune. Well it wasnt and I had called Bill myself to rectify the situtation and was blown off so I took to the boards for a resolve of the issue. After a pissing match in which most of you piled onto me 2 of them got theres sent back and semi corrected, the 3rd had Kennedys redo his just because he lost faith.

I went through the ringer with all you people as you backed Bill Mach and sided against me and had posts removed and or edited to YOUR own liking. I didnt get at Bill just for the simple fact I didnt like him or anything of that nature. I had no idea whom I was speaking to and was whole heartidly going to buy a kit until I found inconsistancies in the lack of fact in which he posted or said over the phone and merely was warning you guys off!!

From square one there was a lack of information from them, inconsistancies from the truth and down right lies against the knowns. I was the only true one to stand against it and try to show you where it was wrong. His business sucks, plain and simple, he lies to know end and maybe the greatest guy you ever met away from all this and it is now come full circle as I once predicated it would do only to get GO AWAY you Biggoted Ahole!!

[Boosted Thrills]

listen man, I wasn't trying to be an ass by my statement, I met bill and colleen at nats 2 years go, hell they caravaned out to KC from st louis..

they seemed like pretty cool people... I along with a lot of other people wanna hear their end of it.... I'm not saying I am jumping on these people's bandwagons... but it is kind of overwhelming now. imo..


what i said had no reflection to what you had said


Back when Bill first hit SSF when it broke away from org, I myself without hate or anything else was interested in his kit and had some serious questions about logistics of the kit. The first question was about fuel delivery and Bill stated his side. This sounded way off the mark so I posted the same question with Bills fix to a fuel injection specialist.He said no way is a FMU going to work anywhere near close in what the motor actually needs and will have a tendency to run pig rich as shifts are made etc. 80 PSI pins the injectors 100% open and a orfice sized for 19lbs and hour at 80% and 60PSI will not in correlation to PSI and fuel addage stay the same. As pressure rises the fuel will at a point begin to slow its added rate down and at some point actually cease to add more. When I post this it gets slammed.

Then everyone wants 1.6:1 rockers in which myself and one or 2 others say go for it. Bill says they wont fit under the covers and "were" lieing and you need his machine work! Funny we didnt have that problem!



lots of cars and trucks use an FMU to get the added fuel needed. not every procharged 4.3L is having problems with the FMU. even procharger uses a FMU with their vortec 5.7L kit. i see no problem with an FMU as long as you have a stock internal motor, just as the fmu was designed for. once you add heads and a cam your steping out of the boundry the stock injectors can handle, even with the extra fuel pressure. as long as you can keep the max needed pressure below 95psi your ok from the data ive seen others post, above 100psi it seems the injectors lock up

what rockers did you use, that seems make up the difference of fitting or not fitting under the stock covers. remember with 1.6 rockers takes you up to the max amount of lift before you start crushing valve seals. if bill sold rockers or even said yea do them and the person ended up crushing seals who do you think theyed blame?

[Sonoma 96]

what i said had no reflection to what you had said



lots of cars and trucks use an FMU to get the added fuel needed. not every procharged 4.3L is having problems with the FMU. even procharger uses a FMU with their vortec 5.7L kit. i see no problem with an FMU as long as you have a stock internal motor, just as the fmu was designed for. once you add heads and a cam your steping out of the boundry the stock injectors can handle, even with the extra fuel pressure. as long as you can keep the max needed pressure below 95psi your ok from the data ive seen others post, above 100psi it seems the injectors lock up

what rockers did you use, that seems make up the difference of fitting or not fitting under the stock covers. remember with 1.6 rockers takes you up to the max amount of lift before you start crushing valve seals. if bill sold rockers or even said yea do them and the person ended up crushing seals who do you think theyed blame?


A FMU is a bandaid approach to the solution to the problem. At 100% duty cycle the injector cant handle over 4-6 PSI non intercooled so now your beyond the ECM having any type of control to the fuel addage. At 80 PSI the injectors are pinned wide open and never close. GM has issued a TSB for the use of 80PSI to blow the injectors completely open to possibly clean the crude out using nitrogen. You see all the time people post how rich they run between shifts and as they get up into gears it gets worse. 80PSI has them pinned open and as the motor shifts and drops RPM for a split second and doesnt require the fuel, its still dumping it in causing this overly rich condition. The only part where the FMU actually works well in in closed loop partial boost where the ECM isnt designed completely to adjust for the boost! Also under boost you really dont want a creep around air fuel ratio, if you dyno it and find the number that works well in boost for max timing/power without going rich, no ping etc whether it be 12.4:1 or 12.8:1 you want to stay there. A FMU cant do that.
ALso the reason many manufacturers never created kits for the SFI motors was due to the injector problems known. The sales of these vehicles made for and overwhelming amount of possible sales itwasnt funny. But not having a decent location to piggy back extra injectors like top screw brand types and or the possibility of replacing them with larger injectors, they strayed away froma very profitable arena. This I was told direct from both Kenne Bell and Magnason, it wasnt worth ruining a reputation due to people toasting motors for fuel problems and also to get CARB approvals.
As for the 1.6 Rockers myself and 2 others suggested at least 3 brands of 1.6:1 rockers that would fit under the valve covers no problem. Onewas the roller tipped as SLP uses and 2 others needed to change to screw in studs, but worked well. As far as mashing the seals, NOT EVEN CLOSE. A factory 96+ uses something like a .370ish lift cam at 1.5:1, at 1.6:1 your under .410 and the Vortec head can take .470 with no problem and argueably to .480-.490 according to some. At .410 or even .430 lift you still have extra clearance thats recommeded you have or you could even add .05 keepers if you wanted too. Either way you look at it all this was shared with peoples wanting to run the rockers, and hundreds of people are today with no problems and have logged many many miles without machine work done. Looked more like a possible way to drive sales up further if you look at all the surronding information!

[s1096]

Was the wait worth it? I'd kinda like to know how the Stage III heads and rocker kit perform.

I love the setup!! IMO it was worth EVERY penny!!!!!!!!! :D

[White97Jimmy]

Yup very sad how people who own a business can "befriend customers" just so they can jerk them around. I will post up my LONG experience that I have never shared as well......hopefully today or tomorrow.


Or their employees...... :happysad:

[xtreme43s10]

Or their employees...... :happysad:

do tell i think everyone should know what kind of bussiness this is.

[Boosted Thrills]

A FMU is a bandaid approach to the solution to the problem. At 100% duty cycle the injector cant handle over 4-6 PSI non intercooled so now your beyond the ECM having any type of control to the fuel addage. At 80 PSI the injectors are pinned wide open and never close. GM has issued a TSB for the use of 80PSI to blow the injectors completely open to possibly clean the crude out using nitrogen. You see all the time people post how rich they run between shifts and as they get up into gears it gets worse. 80PSI has them pinned open and as the motor shifts and drops RPM for a split second and doesnt require the fuel, its still dumping it in causing this overly rich condition. The only part where the FMU actually works well in in closed loop partial boost where the ECM isnt designed completely to adjust for the boost! Also under boost you really dont want a creep around air fuel ratio, if you dyno it and find the number that works well in boost for max timing/power without going rich, no ping etc whether it be 12.4:1 or 12.8:1 you want to stay there. A FMU cant do that.
ALso the reason many manufacturers never created kits for the SFI motors was due to the injector problems known. The sales of these vehicles made for and overwhelming amount of possible sales itwasnt funny. But not having a decent location to piggy back extra injectors like top screw brand types and or the possibility of replacing them with larger injectors, they strayed away froma very profitable arena. This I was told direct from both Kenne Bell and Magnason, it wasnt worth ruining a reputation due to people toasting motors for fuel problems and also to get CARB approvals.
As for the 1.6 Rockers myself and 2 others suggested at least 3 brands of 1.6:1 rockers that would fit under the valve covers no problem. Onewas the roller tipped as SLP uses and 2 others needed to change to screw in studs, but worked well. As far as mashing the seals, NOT EVEN CLOSE. A factory 96+ uses something like a .370ish lift cam at 1.5:1, at 1.6:1 your under .410 and the Vortec head can take .470 with no problem and argueably to .480-.490 according to some. At .410 or even .430 lift you still have extra clearance thats recommeded you have or you could even add .05 keepers if you wanted too. Either way you look at it all this was shared with peoples wanting to run the rockers, and hundreds of people are today with no problems and have logged many many miles without machine work done. Looked more like a possible way to drive sales up further if you look at all the surronding information!

if your talking about roller tip rockers yea those fit no problems, bill himself told me that, by phone or email i forget, like back in 2001, when i rebuilt the topend of my stock motor. i was unsure of the stock cam specs when i posted before, i was thinking it was more like .410 with the stock rockers. im even currently running .500/.510 cam on stock heads and have yet to hurt the seals in 6-7,000 miles. we just barley touch on the exhaust side.

so everyone with the procharger and FMU is having the overrich condition in the higher gears?

REMEMBER the FMU was designed on a stock truck using 8lbs of boost, i was told this by colleen at the '02 nats, could have also been when i picked up my motor a few months before

yes i agree the the FMU is a bandaid, but it does work if you play with the ECM or dont go beyond the limits it was designed for. the FMU is also ALOT cheaper than the other safer more correct method of adding fuel. back when the procharger kit was designed you didnt have any options for an aluminum manifold that bolted up to the vortec heads and easily be modifyed for real injectors, youll have a grand in doing a manifold like mine. if the 4.3L used upgradeable injectors i dont think the procharger kit would have ever came with an FMU.

if you wanna bash bill for his bad business manners or customer service or whatever thats fine but to bash him on something he has proven to work on his own and a very large number of other trucks, thats total :bs:

[sy-clone]

deleted by me

[1bad98gmc]

Or their employees...... :happysad:
I'd be interested in hearing as well.. I had noticed there was a "falling out" with you and them, but never heard much of anything about it.

[18psi350]

To any and all of you who have been doing nothing but bashing BILL, let me try to set some of the record straight. First let me start by saying I AM NOT TRYING TO START ANY PROBLEMS WITH ANYONE. I am a long time friend of Bill, he and I go way back before Mach Performance ever existed so I think I know him well enough to talk about him. Bill’s biggest crime is that he tries to make everyone happy at whatever expense necessary, (Neglecting his family is just one), in trying to make all his customers happy, he spreads himself thin and things don’t always get done when he says they will. So I guess one could say he is slow. Now I am certain if all of you check your local laws this is not a crime punishable by death. Which almost seems like what some of you want to refer to him as, a lie, a cheat and so on. Bill is the same weather in the shop or out.

There are those of you who are saying his kits don’t work or they are not what he says and so on. A few of the people saying this have been in his trucks and gone for rides and were impressed with what he has done. Some of you I have even talked to on the phone and I know what you are saying here is not true. Bill will stand behind his work, (HIS WORK), not something you bought from him, modified it, messed it up, then expect him to warranty it. Especially when you call, tell him there is a problem with his product and then choose not to give him the chance to fix it. I mean come on, when you send something back that no longer even resembles the kit you bought what do you think he should do? But Bill being Bill, trying to keep everyone happy, offered to build a new complete kit on the truck for the costs of materials, no labor what more could you ask. Exhaust components that would fit your truck without question and the truck never showed.

This thread was started by Frank, in which he told you only part of the story, (Oh yes Frank only part of the story). You see, Frank left out the part of the story where he stopped his 4.3 project to work on his 400 project and used some of the money he had given Bill for the 4.3 to pay for the 400, so he could sell it to recoup more money to put towards the 4.3 project. Now Frank claims to be this master machinist, fabricator or whatever he is this week. This is hard to believe considering he could barely even take it apart, (the 400), without help from Bill or others. How long have you worked at your current job there? Frank also leaves out the part where he would drive to Michigan just to hang out and not work. Frank when you found out that the 400 was cracked and didn’t know what to do who stepped up to help? (BILL). Frank, you also claim that you are this great machinist yet when it came time to do the work on your motors you had no clue. Who showed you how to align hone your block? (I did.) Bore and hone your motor (BILL) when it was all over and done, who spent all day putting the motor on the test stand to fire it because you could not? (BILL). Frank, did Bill even charge you for test firing your 400, NO! You were in a hurry to sell that 400 motor to be able to pay Bill to finish your Blazer for you. Frank you bash Bill and say that his kits are no good yet you own 2 of them, (I know your going to say you had to modify them to get them to work), but that’s just bull. After all there are probably 150 kits out there and Procharger backs them with a 1-year warranty and as they posted, Bill is not losing his dealership, nor have they pulled the kit from him.

You want to know what kind of person Bill is or his friends are? I’ll tell you the kind of people who would give you anything to help you out. Frank where did you stay when you were here? (AT MY HOUSE) that’s right Frank I gave you a place to stay to try to help you out without really even knowing who you were. I only did this because Bill told me you were ok. You stayed in my home, ate my food, used my water at no cost to you what so ever. THANKS FOR NOTHING.

You all want to know why Bill won’t post, why should he, most of you have had dealings with him and you know he would do anything or has done anything for his customers and this is the way you treat him. Kind of like pulling all nighters or flying out to you, working without proper tools, taking 4 times as long to do the job, but getting paid the same pay. Oh yeah and the plane tickets were the only part of the trip paid for, not hotel, rental car or food.

I will continue to read as will Bill but most likely will not post again so don’t waste your time attacking me. And again I AM NOT TRYING TO START PROBLEMS WITH ANYONE. Just trying to set some of the record straight.

For those of you who do nothing but find fault with Bill’s product, if you think you can do better, I encourage you to develop, produce and market your own kit good luck to you all. This is not meaning that others can’t do it, but that it’s not as easy as everyone thinks.

[RevolutionRacin]

Well I think you just might as well come out and say it Coleen or whatever you choose to use for a screen name this week. Evidently you have been just letting this well up inside you and it finally got the better of you to get your chance to post.
You can use the failed attempt and say it's tommy but I full well know how you write coleen its just how you speak your words. Now you want the truth about the 406/4.3 debate? Would you like dated checks with the memo's stating what they were put for? How about the 6 diffrent copies of my 4.3 invoice that I have? I have 3 copies from the 406 one you dummied for a customer so I could try and get more money for the engine I had for sale. Maybe you should tell the truth on your part as well how you consistantly put off my engine and made false promises and when I had it sold I had to push you and drive up there and get it done in one weekend. I blame that totally on mach performance I had talked to you several times and my engine was in the hone in the hone in the hone? how many weeks does it take you to line hone a block? OHHH wait thats right you did it the night I was on my way there to help assemble it. For the record also should I post all my bank card transactions as to how many times I bought dinner? How many lunches sunday I paid for. How about that last picnic where I went and got the food with dave and I spent 100 bucks and you were telling me how you couldn't belive how dave did not chip in. Don't try and tell me that my time was worth nothing. If I had not been persistant and come up there you would still be dog dicking around with my bare 4.3 block. The bottom line is I never once said I was a master machinist. I am a metal worker and fabricator. And I will put my welds up against your fence post car battery crap any day. Secondly I befriended you and more than one time more than 10 times I said this to you. And You will not admit it but I know inside you know what I am saying is true. I SAID. I never want anything for free. I don't want a discount I just want to get fair work at a fair price. I told you I told bill. MOre than once. I never once tried to skate on you as far as paying a full price. Who changed the invoices? Thats right. I have every damn copy if you want to play ball I will pull them out.

And if you want to bite back.

How about telling Ritch with the blue truck about how his wheels got stolen because you left his truck outside your shop in an unattended lot for how many months weeks days?

Don't throw stones in a glass house Mr. And Mrs. Mach.
Bring tommy into this if you want. But from what you told mikey... you fired him because he talked to much and tried to run the shop like it was his own. Or was it because Tommy was motivated?

[RevolutionRacin]

Oh yeah one more thing.
If you aren't trying to start anything..

Then stick to just reading things and not saying a word.

[18psi350]

Ok Frank
Number one, It's not Coleen this is Tom. If you think it's not you have my phone number, call me. Here is what I present to you. You say the motor is messed up, the machining is substandard and you didn’t get what you paid for. We will offer for you to bring the motor back here and anyone who wants to come can. We will also set up a live web cam for everyone to view and we will go through your motor piece by piece to see what is messed up. This way, everyone can see who is right and who is wrong. So the offer is here, what do you say?

[18psi350]

By the way, I was not fired by Bill and Colleen. I still go out from time to time to work at the shop but you would know that if Daddy didn’t make you pull your motor from Bill’s shop. Why don’t you just get down to the real reason why your mad, it not because of Bill and Colleen.

[RevolutionRacin]

Cute reply.
For your information. Daddy did not make me pull my engine. I had been trying to get my engine since well before may of this past year. My father went with me to get the engine due to the fact that Mach has been nothing near professional in his dealings with me. I also know he carries a firearm with permit and it has an unregestered barrel. Oh the things I remember eh?
Yes I came up and basically had to demand my engine and get what I paid for. And I have a recorded phone converstation with bill telling me he would not sell me a turbo kit that I paid for.
You can make all the offers and stands that you want and it will not make right what went on in the past. And to refresh your memory. Before this went south you and I had nothing but a good friendlike relationship. I realize your stance with bill but I never once had a problem with you. And I was never anything less than gracious for having a place to stay the 3 times you let me stay over. I do appreciate that. And if you really feel that I did not then I am sorry that that is the way you feel and thats all I can say on that.
I will not be bringing my engine back to bill or bringing anything back to him ever agian. I wouldn't leave a hand grenade at his shop if it was ticking in my hand. I have absolutely no faith in what I have received from him and that is why I gave the block to AES racing engines here in elk grove village illinois. Jeff has gone though the block and has picture doccumented everything as he disassembled the engine. Several rocker studs were improperly installed. Meaning they were less than hand tight. Bill lashed the valvetrain when I picked up the engine. I am still waiting on word on the rotating assembly. They found what they belive to be a bearing clearance problem and they were going to get back to me on it. This was last week. As for the intake I picked up. I measured the ports against a stock manifold. There was less than .20" diffrence between the " mach porting" and a stock intake. It looks alot like someone scuffed the intake runners with a dremel and called it a day. And that cost me 250.

You want to back up bill and colleen thats fine and well I apprecaite your position because you are their friend. But as far as the buisness end of them is concerned. Bill was the one who pulled the plug on me. I had my father which you refer to as some form of joke with me when bill stated my intake and turbo would have been done within a month. He showed us a headunit and plumbing when we picked up the long block. 4 months later I still had no turbo 6 months later I finally got my money back.

I apprecaite your offer. But again. I would never trust my engine to their shop again. Maybe you personally becase you are a very compitent machinist who I still have alot of respect for because you are a good damn teacher. But. Bill and Coleen. No matter if they are good people or not. Their buisness is what is the topic here. Not their personality. Or character.

[gotswrv]

RevolutionRacin you actually had plumbing done for your kit!!! Man you must have waited longer than I had thought. After waiting as long as I did I never received anything like plumbing. If I had I may have waited longer. At least it would have to have been solely for an S...

18psi350"Which almost seems like what some of you want to refer to him as, a lie, a cheat and so on."

Please do not use words like "almost" in sentences like this. After being shown, and receiving testimony, to very specific, and outspoken lies, on this thread, descriptors such as "almost", and "maybe", are not acceptable... We have been cheated, lied to. You apparently haven't experienced people telling you "you got your money back what else do you want" after relocating you battery, rewiring the right side of your engine bay, telling everyone close to you how bad-ass it will be, making purchases that you will never be refunded for (such as LS1 fans), spending accumulated hours on the phone trying to find out WTF. You haven't suffered the harassment of a VERY loyal group(although a loyal NON-following seems to be growing).
We have been embarrassed enough by Mach to come forward and try to save or at least caution other of his wrongs. It IS embarrassing to have made purchases of supporting mods that aren't needed, to have to explain how the "boost god" failed, to have to have to ask for help in getting your money back(from your Dad, a lawyer, your credit card), to have to defend yourself against the loyal even though they are close enough to know the truth. At the end of the day to those who do manage to get there money's back... They, WE, have still not been made whole of our losses...
I would like my time and efforts back. I would like my hopes for it to all work out back. I would like refunded for the supporting mods I've done in anticipation of the kit. The kit that several times was "shipping out next Friday". These things along with the troubles caused by speaking in this place to help others, cannot be made whole... Or alt east will not be.

How can you dare say that we have not been lied to and cheated?

Sam

[18psi350]

What does Bill carrying a fire arm half to do with anything this is Detroit everyone has one.

That’s off topic lets stick to the motor first you said “Update on my stage 3 engine. I began tear down” But then you say that

“I gave the block to AES racing engines here in Elk Grove Village Illinois. Jeff has gone though the block and has picture documented everything as he disassembled the engine. Several rocker studs were improperly installed. Meaning they were less than hand tight. Bill lashed the valve train when I picked up the engine. I am still waiting on word on the rotating assembly. They found what they believe to be a bearing clearance problem and they were going to get back to me on it.

So which is it frank are you doing it? Or is a machine shop? And again I ask if you are such the great engine builder why is someone else doing it yet again for you? Also at the time your 4.3 went together you were getting along with Bill so why would he try to mess up your motor? You and I both know that Bill is so adamant about what he does and he always checks re checks and checks again. You have been here to witness this and you know it. You know that there is nothing at all wrong with the motor your just sour at him about something.

As far as the intake you measured it against a stock one and found less than .20 differences that’s almost ¼ inch how much more do you want?

“I measured the ports against a stock manifold. There was less than .20" difference between the mach porting" and a stock intake”

Juts one more question about you 9 second 406. You know the one we all helped you re-build that was supposed to have all the best parts in it and turned out to be all stock parts what ever happened to it? It ran good on the test stand before you took it home to sell and there were no problems with it and Bill put it together. How did you get a stock motor to go 9’s?


Oh and gotswry yes I have been burned not by Bill but by another shop cost me $15,000 so I do know the feeling.

Have a nice day.

[Nate]

its funny I coudl understand one person having a problem, and it being because they tried to modify something themselves and screwed it up, BUT THIS HAS BEEN A REOCCURING PATTERN. WITH THE SAEM THING HAPPENING TO MORE THAN ONE PERSON.

[xtreme43s10]

To any and all of you who have been doing nothing but bashing BILL, let me try to set some of the record straight. First let me start by saying I AM NOT TRYING TO START ANY PROBLEMS WITH ANYONE. I am a long time friend of Bill, he and I go way back before Mach Performance ever existed so I think I know him well enough to talk about him. Bill’s biggest crime is that he tries to make everyone happy at whatever expense necessary, (Neglecting his family is just one), in trying to make all his customers happy, he spreads himself thin and things don’t always get done when he says they will. So I guess one could say he is slow. Now I am certain if all of you check your local laws this is not a crime punishable by death. Which almost seems like what some of you want to refer to him as, a lie, a cheat and so on. Bill is the same weather in the shop or out.

Ok then what is the deal with Mike's dyno sheets for one ? i posted the link where bill said it was on a dyno and would post the dyno sheet later? then Mike the owner stepped in and said it was never on a dyno TO ME THAT IS A LIE , and just one i caught him in, I'm sure that was not the only lie.

There are those of you who are saying his kits don’t work or they are not what he says and so on. A few of the people saying this have been in his trucks and gone for rides and were impressed with what he has done. Some of you I have even talked to on the phone and I know what you are saying here is not true. Bill will stand behind his work, (HIS WORK), not something you bought from him, modified it, messed it up, then expect him to warranty it. Especially when you call, tell him there is a problem with his product and then choose not to give him the chance to fix it. I mean come on, when you send something back that no longer even resembles the kit you bought what do you think he should do? But Bill being Bill, trying to keep everyone happy, offered to build a new complete kit on the truck for the costs of materials, no labor what more could you ask. Exhaust components that would fit your truck without question and the truck never showed.

It took bill how many months to get my kit? he said 4-6 weeks I understand it might take longer but not 6 months. His excuse was he wanted to make sure everything would fit and he was test fitting on his truck, bull****, the downpipe had no chance of ever fitting and your wastegate pipe yea that ran into the motor as well as other things. was I going to wait and let them try and fix it how long would that take? It was easier just to make new ones down here and save the time and money of shipping. It is funny you bash the welds of others but thier's never cracked. Also what would you do if you at the beach for a car show 3+ hours from home and your header cracks in half? The guy down there never calimed the work to be good but it lasted and got me home which was all i wanted. Did you forget i did give bill a chance to fix HIS PROBLEMS I paid yes I PAID to ship everything up there and was promised it would be back in 2 weeks for him to say it would be $1900 for a new set of headers, then to have bill cry like a little baby cuase I talk to frank and mike, lick my taint, I can do and talk to who i please. He then said when i finally got my kit back (over a month later what happened to the promised 2 weeks opps another lie) then to finally get everything back i had to pay shipping oh and a $200 for my computer to be re programmed becuae it was not done right the fist time ( wasn't this part of the turbo kit) i was never told i would have to pay again but i wanted my stuff back so i agreed. and to my suprize when i got everything it was just thrown in a bow, no bubble wrap nothing like the way it was sent, the turbo was full of popcorn and it looked like brandon boxed it up and kicked it for good luck. Bill had his chance and wanted more $$ to fix HIS WORK, HIS MISTAKES. I guess to keep me quiet bill said he would fix it if i bought the truck to him (knowing I would not) it would be just like dave or mike's and be there forever, and i would have to pay when i picked it up for sure i know how mach performance works. If he could not build a kit that would fit the first time why bother building kits at all he had 6 MONTHS TO GET IT RIGHT

You all want to know why Bill won’t post, why should he, most of you have had dealings with him and you know he would do anything or has done anything to get money from his customers and this is the way you treat him. Kind of like pulling all nighters or flying out to you, working without proper tools, taking 4 times as long to do the job, but getting paid the same pay. Oh yeah and the plane tickets were the only part of the trip paid for, not hotel, rental car or food.



glad you replied bill or colleen you never did answer my PM's though.

[RevolutionRacin]

To answer your questions in order.

I took the engine to AES and began pulling it apart with them. Much like I did with Bill with my 406 in their shop with their tools with them watching. This was done for the reason that my legal council, MY lawyer wanted it doccumented properly so that in the event we find detemental damage or the possiblity of any being done. I can sue. And I will if need be.
Yes I am sour with Bill to clarify that. The reason being so is the simple fact he tried to bend me over. Evidently the concept of time is money makes no bearing. Like I said I have cancelled checks and the multiple copies of the Mach invoices to back up everything I state.

You saw that the 406 we dismantled was something I got ripped off on. And I stated when we took it apart it had no runtime. For that matter you saw the pistons cam and rings.. you also knew it had no runtime. The Car that went 9's that I owned was a 66 chevy II which I have videos of as well as timeslips and you can see me getting out of the car in a firesuit to prove it. I hoped to put my el camino into the 9's But that was not happening with that engine.

If you want to continue to bash me go ahead do what you will. If it makes you feel better to belittle someone for trying then have at it. You misplace your loyalty with the people you defend so righteously. Your time too will come with them. There isn't anyone that they don't talk poorly about when their back is turned and you know it best because you are around them the most.

If you want to find out exsactly what I do you are more than welcome to come to where I work and have worked since july. Heidt's hotrod shop. I am the Head fabricator Model builder and designer. I Fabricate and fixture any new parts or products that we make. If you wish to confirm this you can call and speak directly with Gary Heidt.
111 Kerry Lane Wauconda Il.
For your convience here is our 800 number
1-800-841-8188

I never once said I was a master engine builder. I have some under my belt right now and currently am working ahead on that. But I am a fabricator. Always have been. I worked though a union apprenticeship and still hold my membership as a 73 sheet metal worker.

And if it puts a smirk on your faces. The blazer is being sold as well as my black truck. I am done with the s10 market simply because of people like bill who lead people on and then lead them away.
Like I said if you get off on this thats fine.
What matters to me is that I have made more people aware of how bill treats people and what he has done in the past. I don't think you would want the rest of the truths coming out. Like the whole story about Mike including Bill's trip to ask his dad for money. Or about Dave's truck or Ritch's truck Or any of the other little missing details. This could be a spitting match for days and days if you wanted to go to that level.

I started this thread and have kept at it for the simple reason to tell my side of what bill did to me and make other S-series and S10 forum members aware. To let them all see what went on. Bill has always had the oppertunity to speak up and answer back on this no one banned him. He has not once spoke up on this. This is an open and public forum as you have found out since you joined it. Just like s10 forum where you failed to go and make a stand... You can say whatever you will But I am trying to stick to the facts here.
I Got a raw deal and I will never change my mind on that.
I would never and will never do buisness with Mach performance again.

[98esten]

Keep it civil or I will delete it

[98esten]

Ok Frank
Number one, It's not Coleen this is Tom. If you think it's not you have my phone number, call me. Here is what I present to you. You say the motor is messed up, the machining is substandard and you didn’t get what you paid for. We will offer for you to bring the motor back here and anyone who wants to come can. We will also set up a live web cam for everyone to view and we will go through your motor piece by piece to see what is messed up. This way, everyone can see who is right and who is wrong. So the offer is here, what do you say?


I want Frank to make a simple yea I will do that or no I am not doing that .

[RevolutionRacin]

Trying to do so.

[RevolutionRacin]

Sorry just got that reply 98
I will not let them touch my engine again so that is a NO

Reason being. It took 2 years to get my long block. I don't care what Tommy offers he is not Bill mach. Nor is he employed by them which was previously stated.

Furthermore the engine is just a crank and caps right now Aes has it totally apart as of 3 pm today.

[98esten]

Sorry just got that reply 98
I will not let them touch my engine again so that is a NO

Reason being. It took 2 years to get my long block. I don't care what Tommy offers he is not Bill mach. Nor is he employed by them which was previously stated.

Furthermore the engine is just a crank and caps right now Aes has it totally apart as of 3 pm today.


I still talk to Bill, And I have to say I dont beleive that you are telling the truth. Bill told me he was gonna offer for you to come and use any of his tools and fix it yourself for free I think. Would you do that? Or would you know how?

[Sonoma 96]

I still talk to Bill, And I have to say I dont beleive that you are telling the truth. Bill told me he was gonna offer for you to come and use any of his tools and fix it yourself for free I think. Would you do that? Or would you know how?


Ok, you have a GMS unit that reads 250 GPS, this was according to what Bill told you it read and what you believe to be true 100%. ALways do yiu jam into a post and reinterate this fact as you belive it to be. Ive always wanted to do this, but never flet the need, but now here it goes.
Our ECM's are programmed to see a max of 175 GPS and thats it. How does it know what GPS it is? Well as air cools the wires of the MAF and the ECM commands more voltage to it, the amount of voltage is what the ECM uses to determine GPS for fuel pulse rates.
A GMS is what 43% bigger than a factory one. Hum 43%, 43% then added to the 175 reading makes it 250.25, in your thoughts 250GPS reading unit. But still works the same way, voltage is added and then the ECM translates this to GPS. It doesnt know that the unit is larger, it only sees voltage differences. GMS knowing that it maybe capable of flowing 250 GPS, but the ECM would never see of know this bridged in a new value resistor to change the voltage reading to be more accurate to the factory one. Its a factory electronic unit, in oversized ends,bridged in a new resistor to put out the nearly same voltage outputs the factory one did so the ECM would keep the correct fuel maps. It doesnt read 250 GPS, may allow 250 GPS flow based on the full voltage drop it that kinda of air amouts passed over it, but then again the ECM and fuel map pulses wouldnt react. Would need a whole different MAF and fuel pulse rates maps to even consider the chance of it working! Hate to burst the bubble further, but this 43% number,being that it is a circle doesnt work at all to begin with. The area sizes of the 2 circles here we are talking about dont equate to anything near 43% in flow gain at the same pressure. More over 300 GPS actually.

Now the point of this is 2 fold, one to tell you the truth and 2ndly is you rip REV for what he is posting saying he is a liar or sorts, when I just told you the absolute truth to the GMS game and this shows Bill lied to you. Cause GMS doesnt tell you that 250 GPS number, Bill did and I saw him post it more than a number of times. SO you believe someone who didnt tell you fact, yet are willing to say Rev is lieing??????

[98esten]

Ok, you have a GMS unit that reads 250 GPS, this was according to what Bill told you it read and what you believe to be true 100%. ALways do yiu jam into a post and reinterate this fact as you belive it to be. Ive always wanted to do this, but never flet the need, but now here it goes.
Our ECM's are programmed to see a max of 175 GPS and thats it. How does it know what GPS it is? Well as air cools the wires of the MAF and the ECM commands more voltage to it, the amount of voltage is what the ECM uses to determine GPS for fuel pulse rates.
A GMS is what 43% bigger than a factory one. Hum 43%, 43% then added to the 175 reading makes it 250.25, in your thoughts 250GPS reading unit. But still works the same way, voltage is added and then the ECM translates this to GPS. It doesnt know that the unit is larger, it only sees voltage differences. GMS knowing that it maybe capable of flowing 250 GPS, but the ECM would never see of know this bridged in a new value resistor to change the voltage reading to be more accurate to the factory one. Its a factory electronic unit, in oversized ends,bridged in a new resistor to put out the nearly same voltage outputs the factory one did so the ECM would keep the correct fuel maps. It doesnt read 250 GPS, may allow 250 GPS flow based on the full voltage drop it that kinda of air amouts passed over it, but then again the ECM and fuel map pulses wouldnt react. Would need a whole different MAF and fuel pulse rates maps to even consider the chance of it working! Hate to burst the bubble further, but this 43% number,being that it is a circle doesnt work at all to begin with. The area sizes of the 2 circles here we are talking about dont equate to anything near 43% in flow gain at the same pressure. More over 300 GPS actually.

Now the point of this is 2 fold, one to tell you the truth and 2ndly is you rip REV for what he is posting saying he is a liar or sorts, when I just told you the absolute truth to the GMS game and this shows Bill lied to you. Cause GMS doesnt tell you that 250 GPS number, Bill did and I saw him post it more than a number of times. SO you believe someone who didnt tell you fact, yet are willing to say Rev is lieing??????

Nope Bill never told me that. I got the Grannatelli because it would stay alot cooler than the stock one and I got it off ebay for 40 dollars. I also can say I picked up about 5-7 tenths from his tuning and have been pleased with the service I got from Mach.

[RevolutionRacin]

98 There should be no fixing needed. He threw the engine together in a hurry because I was upset it had been paid for for over 8 months and he did not have it done. Now. When you pay over 6 thousand dollars for an engine why in gods name should it need to be fixed further more why should I drive up there to fix it myself. I have wasted enough of my very valuable time and my fuel driving up there in the past. The whole reason I have the engine at AES is simply because I found out he had been badmouthing me before the engine was even done and with his antics with the turbo setup he did not deliver I lost all faith in him at all. Now when you spend 6 thouand dollars on an engine that was slapped together by someone who does not like you. Would you want to a.) fix it yourself b.) take it to a better machine shop and have it checked out or c.) take it back to the jagmo that built it and let him watch you fix it infront of him with his own tools.

How foolish do you think I am? Honestly? If you are that bent on Bill's word and you are a moderator then delete the thread. I allready got out my point and got my view accross.

If you want to side with bill and belive him thats fine. Infact why don't you order up a turbo kit and see when it arrives or if it ever does. Now being that you still talk to Bill and you two are cozy maybe you should ask him... if he supposedly offered to let me go to his shop and use his equiptment to repair the engine that I paid for that he built..... if he made such an offer why wasn't I called? While you are at it why don't you ask him when he is going to answer John D. Who bill said he would make new turbo headers for.. John has been trying to get ahold of him to take him up on the offer and no answer?

What kind of buisness is that? If that is the kind of buisness you want to deal with then I say to you good day.

If you have nothing more constructive to say then do what you will if you want to delete the thread fine. I have it up at s10 forum as well.

Why don't you go back and check also how Pleased I used to be with mach? Defending him to Sam who he shafted.. I knew bill was in the wrong all along but I backed him up.

I wonder if you realize that he is in the wrong now.

I think you best weigh the people against and the people for. Seems anyone who has spent big money with him has nothing to show for it.

Find me one truck anywhere that he built that is still running and is still fast.
I only know of one that he had his hands on. Thats mikey And mikey was the last one they wanted to cross at the time because they thought his father was going to help them out with money.

The only other truck that was remotely fast JDB HE built. HE did. He got a kit and put it on himself and is going decent numbers. I don't belive all of them but I am sure I will see his truck this year.
But everyone else. Kurt? Blown engine. Dave. Truck isn't done. Ritch I don't know about but who knows. Mach's own vehichles.. last time I was there to get my money back neither one was boosted neither one was driving. You got a computer flash from him.. thats great. He does not do the flashes himself. Headwork. He outsources. The only things he does at that shop engine wise is machine the short block. All the high end porting and intake work he outsources. So before you go and praise him how his heads or his cam are the cats meow.. know that he spent no time with a die grinder on your Iron.

Do what you will say what you will.
He won't get his hands on any of my stuff ever again. Nor will he ever see the likes of me unless its my back bumper dragging past his. Oh wait thats right.. he doesn't actually go to the track.

Stick to the facts.

[18psi350]

Frank ok lets stay to the facts but leave what you know about his personal life out of this.
And again I was not fired by him I still go out as often as time allows.

[White97Jimmy]

Since there has been talk about employees being fired, or let go, or quitting or whatever, I will add my few words in...I will try and stay as neutral as possible, because I care not to get involved with either side.

I can vouch that Bill is one hell of an engine builder. I've seen it, I've been there, I've helped do it (what I could) even before they became busy with the S-Series product line. While I was employed at the shop, I personally have worked a 135 hours in ONE WEEK because of customer demands. Sure, the shop was "understaffed", but Bill worked his a$$ off to make sure he pleased everyone.

Because of such high demands of the S-Series product line, it just made working at the shop 100x more stressful. The Mach family, and the employees worked with limited amounts of sleep and social lives for very long periods of time. I can recall working until 3-4am, living off of Red Bull, powdered donuts and a carton of Marlboro Reds. It was probably the most unhealthy condition I was in ever in my life.

There were times when I thought that the shop was not being properly run; the constant calls from customers and frequent "drop in" guests were distractions that, at times, caused work to get off track.

I believe I had just left employment at Mach Perf when RevolutionRacing had started dealing with Mach. To tell you the truth, there was so much work at the time, everything was blurred together. I will say that the amount of work, amount of calls, amount of customer service, family business, and just overall exhaustion is probably what caused almost all delays in work. I have heard a few other stories about quality of work from local sources, but will not post anything because it is just hearsay.

As a business, I honestly can say I think Bill was mentally ready to step up to the level that he is at today, but physically not. I do not know who is employed there currently, or how many employees are there. At the time that I was there, I think things would have been much smoother if there had been a few more people working on jobs. I just don't know if it was financially possible to hire 2-3 quality experienced people that he could trust to work under his business name. Mach's business finances are none of my business, and I was never involved in any financial dealings with the shop.

I have not talked to Bill or Colleen in almost a year. The last time I dealt with them, it was because their son was in the hospital with a serious illness. I guess it was just meant to be that we don't hang out or see each other. I have no hard feelings towards the Mach's, I always wish them the best, but like it has been posted numerous times already...Its hard to mix business and friendship, which seems to happen a lot with the Mach's.

[gotswrv]

What was too personal? I find this info very tastefull. Tasty too. Definately things people should be in the know about.
Now we're down to Mach Performance welded/s there intercoolers, machined/s there S/C bracket?, machines short blocks, ??? Anything else? I know all the fuel system comes from ATI. The PCM, Head, Intake, and from what I gather the entire S/C kit, is not done by Mach... So everything that is what makes power, is done by others... I guess that may be a good thing.

One question though. With most of his work outsourced: How can he NOT keep up?

[White97Jimmy]

BTW- Frank, I have no idea what you mean about carrying a firearm with a permit with an "unregistered" barrel. There is no such thing in the State of Michigan. The gun is either registered or it isn't. There is not any "barrel registration" in Mich, so don't try and make it look like he illegal posseses a firearm.

[1bad4.3]

Frank, leave me out of your little piss match. My engine was blown up by me, how you ask? By running 16 psi on pump gas. Have you ran 16 psi on pump gas? With your truck? I like to push the limits with my truck. Up here in michigan the climate constantly changes, one day I could only make 10 psi on cooler days 12, and that one freak night 16 psi. Instead of the stronger items going the weakest link ran out which was the head gasket. Did I say bill did a ****ty job with my motor *uck no. I was extremely satisfied with my truck. I should have listened to bill and ran the bigger pulley. I was running the 3.73 on the F-1 blower... that netted 16psi. Bill flat out told me to run the 4" one just to be safe and the 3.73 one for race use only with race fuel. I didn't listen to him, so yes it is my fault for the motor going pop. Bill told me the risks and I was willing to take them. Am I mad at bill no, infact I have much respect for the man. So in conclusion, I blew my motor up, how? 16 PSI ON PUMP GAS 91 OCTANE TO BE EXACT!!!!!!, also, I was not told by bill to come on the boards and stick up for him. I am setting the facts about my situation straight.

Peace

Kurt

[1bad4.3]

Sonoma96, the computer can see 250 gph providing you change it in the cal. How do I know? Cause it was changed on my truck for it. Do I have the GMS MAF? yes, do I have it cal-ed to read that high?, yes. How do I know with my own auto tap when I was driving around doing data logging. I actually seen 435 gph. How is it cal-ed to read that? By changing the MAF table for it.

Peace

Kurt

[xtreme43s10]

noone has answered my questions where mikes dyno sheets a LIE ? :down:

[RevolutionRacin]

Sorry for bringing up your name Kurt.

Facts are Facts.
The worst part is yours just furthers the band aid fuel system because I know you did not have a sheet metal intake yet.

IN regaurds to the gun Fuji I would go into exsact detail why I said something about it. But tom said leave the personal stuff out of it. So I will
Main reason is he started tossing my dad's presence in this. I think is crap. I don't want the hint that he had anything to do with this bull other than trying to keep me from getting screwed harder. Now my dad is currently in the hospital I won't go into detail there either because thats personal to me. But for Tommy to come here and thrash me and think he can pull up more and play me off as a daddy's boy right now is real bad timing for him. Comes back to picking your battles

[18psi350]

First Mike never paid for his truck to be dyno. The numbers that were posted were from another truck with a motor built almost the same as Mike’s. Mike new this was where the numbers came from. Those numbers were posted because everyone on the board was pressuring him to get the numbers because you guys live and die by the number.


Frank sorry to here about your dad.

[akty]

Just feel compeled to inteject the purpose of the Vendor feedback forum real quick...

Vendor Feedback Forum
Tell us your experiences good or bad with vendors of truck products.

With that said, posting in here should be their experiences that they've had with the product/vendor in question, leaving personal jabs and jeers out of it.

Jimmy - I personally appreciate your viewpoint, since it gave us good insight on what we all knew but fail to remember. Mach's shop was/is busier than hell, constantly called, dropped in on, etc. Posts about this and hearing about it, I can remember going way back. Is it an excuse? No, but was something that was helpful to the thread.

Please stick to the facts. Stick to your truck, your product purchased, your personal deal.

It's becoming a little out of hand.

[Sonoma 96]

Vendor Feedback Forum
Tell us your experiences good or bad with vendors of truck products.

[xtreme43s10]

Vendor Feedback Forum
Tell us your experiences good or bad with vendors of truck products.

[Boosted Thrills]

One question though. With most of his work outsourced: How can he NOT keep up?

thats exactly it, he has to depend on the other people to come through and deliver what he needs. he dosent have a magic wand that he can just wave in the air and poof the parts are there. if bills suppliers are running behind he cant get what he needs to do done on time and that makes him behind and before you know it you have the customer constantly complaining that they want their **** now, that only makes the situation worse. it sucks having to wait on others but thats just how it is.

it seems like im constantly having to call customers and telling them "i wont have your car finished today, im waiting on parts"


Thats what I said! Out of the box the ECM will not see anything other than the voltage applied to the MAF within its calibration. This as you state all has to be changed. Point was 98 believes everything Bill says to be 100% accurate and this was one thing he learned via Bill and not on his own as he states. Bill stated this many times and its inaccurate, untruthful, lie whatever you want to call it. So trying to go against Rev on the bases that what Bill told his as truth is not something you should believe. And also there was more than 3 people whom toasted motors on forums alone, with the ATI kits. A 6PSI change on pressure from one day to the next signals a real problem with the kits consistany, especially when the fuel systems FMMickeymoused!!


im gonna do a search and see what was posted by bill about the GMS maf. he does ask if you have one when you get a reflash. the main reason to get one is to prevent a pressure loss across the MAF. im not an OBD2 guy but i even knew "out of the box" the ECM could only read so much air cause thats only how high the table goes. just cause the the MAF can read 300gps or whatever dosent mean your motor will flow that. if someone like me knows that i know bill would. the whole idea of a manifold with bigger injectors, blowing through the MAF, and changing the ECM tables would allow you to do away with the FMU. we, meaning the guys on the forum, have been discussing that for years
i have a 1000cfm throttle body, does that mean my motor uses that much? fock no

i just have to LOL everytime you say the fuel system is "mikeymoused" the FMU was designed on a STOCK motor with PS-1C headunit and 8PSI boost. kurt(sorry for bringing your name up, i just needed a good example of how crazy some guys get :D ) is WAY beyond the limit of what the fuel system was designed for. how many guys running 8psi are having problems?

[1bad4.3]

Sonoma 96,

My supercharger system is not a kit bill offers he will not sell someone what I have to a person with a stock motor. When his systems first came out the were marketed at 8psi as a kit. Can you up the boost sure ya can. Do you think every owner that had this done didn't know the risks? I am sorry, you have to,that is just plan ignorace, whether I buy a vortech, powerdyne, paxton, or turbo, without the proper fuel each one of these units will blow the motor. Who here has BLOWN up there motor at 8psi with bills kit? I want to know really, and were they properly tuned with a wide band? Sorry but again I don't see any products here produced by anyone that is bashing mach. Mach has built a kit, no one here hasn't not even you. Will you? NO you will sit and whine about how bad bills is and such, make your own market it and sell it. Since you know all of bills problems with his kits, come on produce a kit, stop whining about it and make one. Prove us all wrong make a show stopping truck that is super fast or as you put it a reliable kit. My kit was reliable until I went and messed with the boost levels. What bill provided for me was safe and reliable period. I had 2 years of safe happy boosting at 10 - 12 psi. Only when I messed with the boost levels did it go pop. Sorry with more that 150 kits out there how come there aren't over 150 blown up motors? Explain that one? FMU is not reliable? How come ever kit manufacturer includes them with there kits? Sure there are better ways of injecting more fuel into the motor but which is cheaper? Will a person pay for a fuel stand alone? Hell no they will go with the cheaper FMU. Only hardcore guys will do a full stand alone. I will post more later, have to run for now

Peace

Kurt

[xtreme43s10]

First Mike never paid for his truck to be dyno. The numbers that were posted were from another truck with a motor built almost the same as Mike’s. Mike new this was where the numbers came from. Those numbers were posted because everyone on the board was pressuring him to get the numbers because you guys live and die by the number.



all i have to say

:bs:

[98esten]

Everyone take a breath and come back to this another day. I will reopen it after a cool down period.

[cartman007]

Keep this on point, no attacks, just FACTS. Good or bad, both sides should be heard

[98esten]

open again, if it gets off topic or argueing it gets deleted

[Dr. Nate]

Granted, I am not a customer of Mach Performance, but I do have to raise a few a questions.

1. Why would anyone spend $13,000 on an engine that they were having built 5 hours away from a shop that wasn't very big?

2. After investing half of the money and being told that my project wouldn't be started till it 90% of it was paid and being placed on the back burner several times, I would have pulled my money, engine, parts, and everything else and gone to another shop.

3. Why haven't you sued them for the damages, fruad, and other problems that you have had to deal with?

4. Have you learned from your adventure?

Like I said, I'm not a customer of Mach Performance, but before this thread was posted I had looked at their turbo kits after talking to HotRodV6 (Mike) from HASTE about hopping up a 2.2L engine.

I felt like their numbers were to good to be true and that was all it took for me to not buy into the scam. Had I known someone that had no problems with the shop and had seen those numbers on the street, I would have gave it another look.

It seems to me that not does this group of criminals have issues with their business practices, but they also need to try going back to school and learning how to run a business. I don't care if you promise the moon to me, the first time you don't come through, I'm done with you.

There are to many shops in the US that will be more than happy to make my dreams come true. You get what you pay for, and sometimes it is worth paying more to have it done right and by a shop that knows what they are doing and is well known.

I know we all have to start from somewhere, but take Suicide Doors, they have excellent business practices, I haven't heard anyone bash them, and I've seen their products first hand and had a friend that knows the ins and outs of what they build tell me they are the better, cheaper, faster alternative to ART.

In the world of performance parts there are 1,000,000 criminals for every 1 good shop. Going fast is never cheap, and you can always count on the price going up as you get further into the project. This theory doesn't apply to just cars and trucks, it holds true for that deck and pool you want to put in the backyard.

My only advice is that everyone here learn from what has happened, take the time to educate themselves about what all they want done to their ride, the people who make the parts, and be prepaired for the cost to increase.

I'm glad the mods have left this thread open, as it is should be for the others who might look into Mach Performance to do some research. I really wish all that have been burned good luck in getting their problems worked out.

It is a shame that two men would resort to internet fights to solve a problem that should have been delt with in person, off the message board, and quicker than a few months, weeks, or even years.

Just my 2 cents.

[akty]

Not the place Nate.

It's been asked to stay on topic. Have a problem with the product you purchased from Mach, post. If you don't have a problem with the Mach product you purchased, post.

IF YOU DIDN'T PURCHASE THE PRODUCT - DON'T BOTHER POST IN HERE.

[Dr. Nate]

Damn, remind me to never think again.

Please everyone, bend over and take it up the a**, ignore advice.

[98esten]

Damn, remind me to never think again.

Please everyone, bend over and take it up the a**, ignore advice.


I am gonna leave this for Admins to see. I would like to delete it and I could. But I think Akty should handle it. if it were up to me you would get to take a break from SSF for awhile.

[Dr. Nate]

I am gonna leave this for Admins to see. I would like to delete it and I could. But I think Akty should handle it. if it were up to me you would get to take a break from SSF for awhile.

Why, because I think that it is fair that someone should consider a few things before doing business with a company? Then getting annoyed when someone tells me I was wrong for posting it?

I fail to see where that post was offensive. Think before you buy, what a radical new thought.

And the comment that I made is by far harmless compared to the hundereds of other comments made that are by far of more concern then mine.

[Nate]

honestly Nate, just leave it alone. otherwise the thread will get deleted and NO ONE will see it as it stands your POV was stated, it is here, arguing anymore about it is not necessary, unless you want the whole thread gone.

[Dr. Nate]

honestly Nate, just leave it alone. otherwise the thread will get deleted and NO ONE will see it as it stands your POV was stated, it is here, arguing anymore about it is not necessary, unless you want the whole thread gone.

Aight homes; sorry everyone.

[akty]

Damn, remind me to never think again.

Please everyone, bend over and take it up the a**, ignore advice.

I stated this was not the place as this is the feedback forum, for people who already purchased products. Prospective members would take from experiences of people who have bought products to form an opinion on whether of not they intend to do business with a vendor.


Think before you buy, what a radical new thought.

Radical thought indeed - take from the feedback these people left. If you read the majority of the thread, you'd see most of these questioned answered already.

With that said - seems like owners of Mach products have said their peace. This thread is closed.